Shepherding - Recognition 01 - 1 Timothy 3 — 1 Peter 5

0:01 I'd like to begin this evening first of all with a warm welcome and it's great to be with you again. I've really enjoyed. I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed being with you. And I wanted to also take the opportunity to thank the assembly, thank the elders for being so kind and sending fellowship to Janet and I through CWF. We wanted just to express our gratitude to you.

0:26 I think there's some thank you notes along the way but I thought it'd be a good opportunity to say that. The second item I want to begin with is a question that was submitted to me or sent to me and it's an excellent question to mention and then I'll launch into some of the teaching of this evening. The question was some counsel or some advice I gave concerning elders and sharing items with your wives. And I wanted to clarify that because I'm sure I painted it in a very black and white manner. What what I'm trying to...

1:35 Or maybe your husband that says, I can't keep anything inside. I've got to tell somebody. I'm only gonna tell my wife. And and we become... This elder and wife can become a source of information that is detrimental.

1:51 The reason why it's detrimental is because on the one hand, it can become like... You're like a tail bearer if if if you share a lot of information. And and the reason why that's detrimental is because it robs the credibility of the oversight. I don't wanna tell you anything because, know, people know and and so it it it really destroys credibility and you need that on some of these very difficult things. The second reason is there's a verse tucked in, I think it's...

2:24 Let's see. It was in... Just a second. Ephesians five twelve where it mentions about some of the things that are done in secret ought not to be said publicly or... And and that's just...

2:41 What what I mean by that is sometimes it causes a stumbling block in your in your spouse to to go into excessive details about people's sin. It also can cause a stumbling block because, if your spouse knows information about another person, they're not sure how to react to that person when they see them at the assembly. It becomes a very difficult thing. Now I... I'm saying this because it kinda...

3:09 I'm trying to guard against the gossip thing and the stumbling block thing. But truthfully, the application of this advice is couple dependent. Some couples have a unique ability to know a lot and yet be capable... Keep it to themselves without becoming negative towards an individual, as they work through their Christianity, a sheep's walk. And and so there's a lot of variation in how this is applied.

3:42 But I've seen the difficulties on both ends where, one person becomes, you know, sharing information becomes a conduit for more spreading spreading of news and that's very, very, very hard on an assembly. And the other scenario is where it becomes a truthfully, a burden and I wish I didn't know this information and I can't get it out of my mind and I can't look at the person in the eye. I'm mad at them for what they've said. You know, those kind of reactions are things that I think would be a a hardship. And so having been through that, I tell you it's sometimes wise to to not reveal every secret.

4:28 And that's why I tried to hit the middle by saying, let... It's it's generally good to say something that describes the ballpark, of the general scenario that someone's in. For example, how did your meeting go, Steve? I would say, oh, well, we had a lot to talk about. Well, are they are they doing okay?

4:48 Well, they're they're just struggling with, you know, their marriage in an... And, some of those aspects. And so sometimes I'll say that. Other times, I will, get permission from the people involved or, when I'm talking with my fellow elders, they might say, well, maybe it'd be good if we asked our wives this because we don't have a clarity on it. So I encourage the wives of elders to be discreet, to make it a real point to to be a a dead end of information which I think we all would agree with.

6:06 We do need to understand the principles and then follow those as best we can. So I hope that adds some clarity to that question. I thought it was an excellent question and I really appreciate that. Alright. So tonight, I want to talk about...

7:19 Recognize those who labor among you. Then there's qualifications and then there's of course the desire for the work and lastly and most importantly, the spirit of God raising up the oversight. Now, when we talk about those things, I want to emphasize maybe some wise practices. When when we're talking about recognizing elders, one of the questions that you wanna lead with is who's doing the work of the elder. Don't ask who's qualified yet.

7:52 You'll get there. But if you ask who's doing the work of the elder, that narrows down the pool that the spirit of God may be raising up. Right? Those are the individuals that you then ask about the qualifications. If you do it the other way and you say, who's qualified?

8:11 Well, you go through every person in the assembly and it's kind of painful to do that. And then you say, oh, you're qualified but you're not doing the work. So we we don't need to we don't need to ask you anyway. So so the point that I'm making is it's wiser to begin with those who labor among you and then we examine concerning the qualifications. And those qualifications, you know, again, they have a general tenor and these are the specific examples of what they look like.

8:39 Now, the other item I wanna mention is not just the labor and not just to qualifications, but I I want to mention this desire. It's a very subjective thing but I I believe God puts it on a person's heart to do the work. Many times when you are doing the work, clearly you have a desire. Now, the desire you want to have is... And I wanna tell you what it should not be.

9:09 It should not be a desire for power. It should not be a desire for recognition or being a really good good guy or a fulfilling a fantasy of someone's idealized version of Christianity. It should not be any of those things which I would consider fleshly. The desire of the... Of serving as an elder is built on the the Ephesus motif which was we do what we do because we love the Lord preeminently.

9:43 Not one of my loves, like I love the work of shepherding and I love the Lord and they're kind of one and two. No. I love the Lord preeminently and therefore, will do this work as my offering of love to my God. That's a very important principle to keep in mind. So when you weigh this desire, it really is...

10:05 It's sort of subjective but but you wanna weigh the motivation to the desire. I think that's a very important thing. The Ephesus church was rebuked strongly for doing lots of good things but missing the main thing. And I I I fear that sometimes we'll do that when we look at elder recognition. Now the last one is the spirit of God.

11:15 They identified the elders. What were they using for their criteria? Well, according to Paul's writings, it's desire of the work, it's qualifications, it's laboring. And then they did this thing where they said, what's the spirit of God doing? The spirit of God made you overseers.

11:33 So look at how this happened in acts chapter 13. Sorry. I'm in the wrong chapter. Chapter 13. And I think it's it's kind of telling.

11:45 Now, in the church that was at Antioch, there were certain prophets and teachers Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the Tetrarch and Saul or Paul. Now, these are individuals that are listed by the the... By doctor Luke as ones who were apparently quite busy in the work. They were laboring. See that how that fits in?

12:13 Now, as they ministered, so there was an active element to their to their service using their gifts. As they ministered to the Lord and fasted... Now what does that mean? They were directing their bodies to be spiritually attentive at the extent... At the expense of depriving their bodies of nourishment so that all of the body's energy, all of its blood flow if you will, will be spiritually directed.

12:42 In other words, they were praying. And so they... This assembly was active with gifts in motion. They were active in prayer and that's when the holy spirit spoke. Now, separate unto me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I've called them.

13:01 Right? So what are they doing? They are discerning the calling of the spirit of God. Notice what they did next, having fasted and prayed. So twice, we have in three verses an emphasis on the exercise of prayer.

13:19 So it is... And this is now my strong personal opinion that when an assembly is looking to the spirit of God to identify without the apostles present, we have their writings instead, It has to be predicated on concentrated, frequent, repetitive prayer concerning the Lord raising up and showing us who the leadership is as it would be for sending out people to the missionary. So let me suggest that in a practical way. I think it needs to practically be done at every prayer meeting. That every prayer meeting you call usually once a week, we we we make concerted effort.

14:04 Number two, I think you should have... The the body can have their own spontaneous meetings just to pray. It was mentioned twice. That's why I have to say I think we have to focus on that. Just to pray.

14:21 Now in our day with Zoom and these things, you you you you can easily pray about this. And I'm... Let me just add that if you elect to do that, don't fall into the trap of of sharing opinions. Well, I was thinking the Lord was working on this man's. I...

14:37 Well, I was saying, don't share opinions because you you... You're not trying... This is not this is not a voting thing. This is a discerning thing. And and what happens is if we start to get into some of these conversations especially before we pray, we only make it about our opinions or if you will, our flesh, our fleshly logic, our fleshly observations.

14:59 I don't want any of that. I wanna know what the spirit of God is doing. That's why we pray. So special prayer meetings for that. The existing oversight was special prayer meetings just for that.

15:12 You have prayer... The regular prayer meeting and then of course, a whole body as you gather on Sunday, maybe coming in early if you will for a season and we'll pray together just about this. There is no doubt in my mind that based on the promises of the Lord Jesus, if you are quite serious about the spirit of God directing you, he says in the book of Luke chapter 11 that he... Like a father would give you gifts, so would he give you of his spirit to those who ask him. Now he's not talking about the once for all indwelling of the spirit at the point of salvation.

15:49 He's talking about the filling of the spirit to do things like discerning his will. And so I believe that is the most important thing the assembly can do. And when you pray like this, what happens is some of our thoughts as we pray, we hear ourselves, say them and we go, oh lord, I'm sorry that's not right. Lord, just give us your mind. That's all we want is your mind.

16:13 We cry out to your mind. We're not leaving as as it were. We're not leaving praying about this until you answer us, father. Why would you not answer us? Is there sin in our lives?

16:24 Is there things that we have fleshly that's preventing you from answering? Purify us, oh God. Let us hear your voice. Now, when a body of believers does that, I think God obligates himself. He obligates himself to answer, listen and answer to the prayers of those children.

16:44 And I I I've seen it happen in our assembly. We've watched it occur in multiple places and I can't emphasize the incredible necessity to be a body that prays, a body that calls out to God, a body that cast themselves on this very important part of the spirit of God raising up leadership. I I I humbly but yet with great deal of passion emphasizes to you. Okay. That's kind of a summary of last time and so I'm sorry that took a little longer than I realized.

17:51 Okay. To the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi with the bishops and deacons. Alright? So it appears that there were more than one. Now there are some teachers that have been in the years past would say, well, maybe there was more than one house church and each had a bishop and so he was talking to each...

18:12 To the bishops collectively from all the house churches. Alright. Now, on the... I have to tell you that there is not a lot of proof to support that conjecture. And so if you don't have a lot of evidence to support a conjecture, you know what it is?

18:29 It's hypothetical. I don't think you can prove it. You can't say yay or nay about it. But what we do know is that it was it was bishops. That's plural.

18:39 So there's only four times in the New Testament in which the word elders or bishops is singular. And and one of the... Two of those happened to be when John referenced himself as the elder, and the other two were in first Peter five when Peter is talking about him being an elder. So they're very explanatory, but it appears that whenever you're talking about the church, it's in the plural. I should say that the one exception, the additional exception to that is first Peter chapter three in verse one when Paul is addressing Timothy in in regards to the whole assembly.

19:17 He says, if anyone of you desire the work of the overseer, that's in the singular, but in the context, he's addressing the assembly which has a plural component. Now why do I emphasize this to us? It's not rocket science and many of us know this. The plurality of the oversight is not just for wisdom because that comes from the proverbs and the multitude of counselors there is wisdom. The plurality of oversight has at least two or three more functions.

19:49 Number one, it's protective. It's protective. The plurality is not just for for wisdom, it protects... Now who does it protect? Well, it protects on several levels.

20:03 Number one, it protects the individual elder from having a secret life, from straying from their walk with God. One of the things that I think has been beautiful about the brothers meeting is that there's developed a tremendous element of transparency between the brothers. That's what you need to have with fellow elders. It's not a boys club because my fellow elder needs to be able to call me out when there is sin in my life. They they have to shepherd each other.

20:37 So the plurality is very protective. Okay? Number two, the plurality is very, how should we say, it provides eyewitness. So when we go and do visits, we very rarely go alone. We'll try to go by twos at the minimum.

20:58 If it's a high risk situation, we'll all be there. But sometimes it's a situation that really should have just two elders. Now why is that? Because when you hear a story from somebody and usually it's a problem or a saga or a sin, it helps to have another elder there that will sometimes be a sounding board or another memory to recall what we heard and what we said. And we find that to be very very important.

21:31 So it's it's a protection. It's it's for... It's wise counsel. It's protection. It's for witness in various situations.

21:42 And I would say the third one is it also gives mutual strength to each other. When when doing things alone, it just doesn't seem to be the principle of the savior. He sent them out two by two. He sent them out in a manner in which there was plural two people as a minimum doing the work together. It it provides that mutual encouragement when one is weak, the other is strong.

22:11 So I I recommend that you you not only talk about plurality of leadership but we put it into practice. Now there's some special situations when we when we elders were needing to visit with for for for example, a single lady, doesn't matter the age, a single lady. We did a few things which were just we thought were wise. Number one is we never met a single lady alone with one elder. That was never done.

22:43 We still never do that. Number two, if we... If it was a single lady, we would ask them to come over to our house and our wives would be in the other room. Right? Now that was again protective above reproach.

23:00 If by chance none of that would work, we would meet that lady, two of us, at a public place like that has some privacy like a Starbucks where you can hide in the corner. And sometimes, we would ask with their permission, the saint's permission, one of our spouses to accompany us. Right? Or to sit close by. Whatever form of accountability you want to use, whatever way to stay above reproach, the plurality notion is very important and with these special situations, this is how we manage them.

23:39 We've of course asked our elders' wives when they were with us that we needed them to respect confidentiality, we needed them to remain, It wasn't a hard and fast rule but to remain quiet during the discussion. And if by chance they had an insight, we would ask them to give that afterwards to us and that way we could maintain the order. There's no hard and fast rules about those things. Those are just the why... We thought they were wise things to allow a saint to be visited who was single.

24:38 Get my electronic bible to cooperate. Now, when we talk about elders and and they're kind of together, I want to to develop a kind of a concept. And what this concept is is that the elders have to sort of be a miniaturized demonstration of the assembly. Now that you're not gonna find that stated in the bible but it seems to make intuitive sense because they are members of the body, they are joining together to work together for the shepherding of the assembly And it makes sense that they're probably gonna have to replicate or at least mimic the principles of unity for the body at large. The body at large has unity, well, that unity happens in small groups too and the elders at this...

25:32 In this discussion would be a small group. Now, I bring this up because I've been in places where the brothers were, excuse me, doing... Providing spiritual leadership but they absolutely hated each other. They could not get along. They could not...

25:51 They were... One was always disagreeing with the other just to disagree. Now, that is not what this is about. This is not a place where we are trying to win arguments as a group of elders. We are trying to discern and obey the will of God.

26:11 We are trying to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ to the maximum level as a group of individuals who will lead the body in the same pattern. So clearly, a group of elders have to become, if you will, fleshless. There cannot be flesh in an oversight group. You've got... It takes a lot of tenacity to battle that internally for each person involved.

26:41 The second thing that we want to realize in this idea of modeling what we want for the assembly, the oversight modeling unity that the body would follow comes to you from this passage in first Corinthians 12. I wanna read a little bit of it because we're going to apply it to the oversight and they're working together. Look at verse 12. Okay? I'm sorry.

27:07 We're gonna look at verse four. There are diversities of gifts but the same spirit. Right? So the same holy spirit and the oversight. There are diversities of ministries but the same lord.

27:20 There are diversities of activities but it is the same god who works all in all but the manifestation of the spirit is given to each one for the profit of all. So we're applying it to the oversight. So what does this mean for the oversight? That means that all the elders do not do the same thing. They don't minister necessarily in the same way and and they're going to be differing gifts.

27:47 So that's to be expected. That's normal. And so if you find that a brother has a different opinion on an issue, it might be just from the fact that they have a different gift, a diverse gift. Let me give you an example. This is from Bob Brown who I love dearly.

28:08 He says, you know, if I love salt and you don't and we sit down to have a meal together, who notices there's no salt? The salt lover, that's who notices. But for you who doesn't like salt, never cross your mind. This is how it is in the oversight. If you're a gifted teacher, you are most likely gonna see every...

28:31 The solution to every problem as better teaching. But if you're a gifted person with mercy, you're gonna see that every solution to every problem is going to be empathy. Now, how do you work this out? Well, the way you work it out is you appreciate the differing gifts because it brings differing perspectives. So not only is the the diversity of gifts important, it's gonna lead to different ways that we serve and different ways that we interact.

29:04 So none of our elders feel like they have to do everything a very productive elder is doing. In fact, we say that. You don't have to do it. Everybody's a different station in life and so if you've got young children, clearly your timetable is shorter, is is is much narrower than somebody who doesn't have young children in the family. What we ask of everyone is to be engaged at the level that you can be engaged at and where you can't, go ahead and honestly say, can't do that.

29:36 We trust that you will make it your... The most out of your time. So we'll give you the benefit of the doubt that way but we respect when you say, I just can't do that. And we kind of want that atmosphere, that permission to communicate struggles of that nature. So we don't expect everyone to have the same size bowl of grace.

30:02 Now, also notice that it says, the spirit is given to each one for the profit of all. So we take that that each person in the oversight has a different contribution based on their gifting and we think that's a good thing. It's not an antagonism. Men that have been before us have seen it as antagonistic. They never they never they never agree.

30:26 They're always this. They're always that. And and we don't seem to first come to the scenario to value each other, value the profit that each one brings. Now, Paul then gets into some of the specifics. I'm going to begin now reading in verse 12.

30:45 For as the body is one and has many members. So let's apply that to the elders. As the elders is one group, they have many members. But all the members of that body being many are one body so also is Christ. We need to demonstrate, emulate the oneness we have in Christ.

31:05 It's especially important. This... What I'm gonna say next, I think is a truism. The degree of unity that the the elders have will be direct proportion to the degree of unity the saints have. If the sheep can discern there is disunity among the oversight, there will be polarization of the sheep and the flock.

31:31 So this is why it's important that we we work, we fight for our unity. We forgive, we stand down, or we are gracious. It's it's it's it's imperative. It's vital for the oversight. Now having said that, he says, one body, many are one body, so also is Christ for this...

31:52 For by one spirit, we were all baptized into one bodies emphasizing the oneness whether Jews or Greeks or slave or free. So if you were to apply it to the oversight, we have different ethnicities, we have different stations in life, but we are one and we all been made to drink into one spirit. You notice the keyword is one. It's not just here. The Lord Jesus mentioned it in his high priestly prayer.

32:17 So oneness is very important to the heart of God and as a collective body and it's very important specifically to the oversight since we are to follow the commands of the Lord. For in fact, the body, and this is where he changes the the emphasis, the body is not one member, alright, but many. He's gonna talk about the many now. If the foot should say, because I'm not the hand, I'm not I'm not of the body. So what is that saying?

32:45 That means that no person in the body and then we'll say the body of oversight has any less contribution than anyone else. Everyone is contributing. Like, you can't say, well, you know, I'm not really a great teacher so I'm not a good elder. No. What what are you talking about?

33:05 That is not that is not an accurate statement. It does violence to that phrase that we just read. We've been all made to drink into the one spirit for in fact the body is not one member but one member but many. Foot cannot say to the hand, I'm not I am not of the body. It is therefore not of the body.

33:27 He says, that doesn't make it true. And if the ear should say, because I'm not an eye, I'm not of the body. It is therefore not of the body. He says, that's not true. That doesn't make any sense.

33:37 How can you say that? Well, look at your body. Your eye is sitting in the center of your skull. It's part of the body. You just can't disattach yourself nor should we do that in the oversight.

33:47 And then he says this, if the whole bot... Now he's gonna switch. If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? Now that's a big one. In oversight, each of you have differing gifts and talents, differing skill sets, things that you've learned along the way.

34:04 And as a result of that, each person contributes in a bit of a different manner. One of my fellow elders is an engineer. Now one thing about engineers is that they're very solid thinkers. They are able to march through an equation, a complex equation and boil it down to its elements that they then work through one by one. That's how they're taught.

34:31 That's how they function. I have learned to appreciate that kind of thinking especially if you're a person that can't organize like that. You should value that. It's not a negative. It's a big positive and that's what we wanna do in the body.

34:47 Just because you're not that, you... Just because you wish you were something else, then who would fill your role? That's what he says by that statement. If I'm not the eye, I'm... Or excuse me.

34:57 He says, if the whole body are an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the smelling be? But now God... And notice that, God has set the members, each one of them. I I love that.

35:12 Everyone is handpicked here in the body just as he pleased. And if all were one member, where where would be the body? It doesn't work. We have to have diversity to make this thing work. It applies to the assembly at large but it really applies to the oversight.

35:31 It has to be... It has to begin in that sort of vital organ of the assembly. Now why do I say this? Because there are times in which we disagree in in elders meetings and it's not because I'm right and you're wrong or you're right and I'm wrong. It's just that we're looking at it from two different sides of the coin.

35:55 And the faster we can appreciate that, the faster we can come to a sense of consensus and decision making. It's very important we don't throw this principle out of an elder's meeting. And the the other thing I've seen that really makes me passionate about this is that some men are not quick thinkers on their feet, other men are. And the guys that are quick on their feet, they usually speak first because they're already processing. Now, one of my fellow elders was Rob over the years.

36:36 Rob is an outstanding gentleman. This man, I I cannot tell you how much I've learned from him. And one day he came to me, he's ten years older than me. This is now about ten years ago. He said, Steve, I'm not good on my feet.

36:55 You are. When we do this visit, would you lead in the visit and I will listen. And as I listen, I will be processing but if you could be the point person that would go so much better. So we did the elders visit, we visited, I did the interaction, Rob sat in, he added a few comments here and there and the problem was pretty complex and I didn't know what to do about it. Rob went home, he prayed, he thought, he processed slowly, came back and he said, Steve, I think this is the answer.

37:31 And I'm telling you, he was spot on and I never would have got there. I appreciated his function as an elder and how it complemented me but also how much I learned from him. And when you do that in an oversight, you validate them and their spiritual gifting, you authenticate their usefulness to the body of Christ and it allows you men to have confidence one with another. Not that you're always right or I'm always right, but that we both are necessary. It breeds confidence and plurality.

38:10 And what I've seen is that we don't get along in oversight and we say this must be wrong, let's throw it out, it doesn't work. It's only good on paper. My friends, we should never say that. That is like saying to the Lord, you created a problem that we can never do. Thank you very much.

38:28 That is not how it works. We we want to rewire our perception on this truth. When somebody can't think as fast on their feet as someone else, I've learned to help try to probe their thinking. Maybe their words aren't very fast and so I'll say, now brother, what what what are you thinking there? There's...

38:51 It looks like you've got some thoughts and he'll stutter and he'll stammer and I'll get a few words out and I'll say something like, okay, I I think I understand what you're saying. Help help me now. Did you mean this? And I'll state it in in in a short segment summary. They go, yeah.

39:09 That's exactly what I mean. That's what I'm trying to say. I said, well, great. And then I'll turn to everyone in the meeting. I'll say, now, did you hear that?

39:18 Did you understand him to say that? Oh, yeah. And we get there and I go around the room and we just sign off on that. We both... We all came to a mutual understanding for a brother that had trouble getting his words out.

39:31 That's what we do. That's creating unity in the oversight. That's helping each other along here. So when I talk about this concept of plurality, I want to address the inner workings of the oversight. I'm gonna talk about something at this point which is, what we call consensus decision making.

40:14 It's going to... We're gonna turn to Acts chapter 15 and I want you to turn there. And I know we're getting a little bit short on time so I may have to finish this next time but let's let's begin to introduce it. Alright? Acts chapter 15 and verse one.

40:37 Now certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, unless you are circumcised, excuse me, according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved. So there's some pretty significant doctrinal things there. And the significant doctrinal thing that was being stated was what amounts to sort of work salvation. Now they were sincere people. They were trying to do the right thing as they thought it.

41:06 But notice therefore when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determine that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question. So what's going on? They have a question. It's a doctrinal question. They want to appeal to a higher authority, those who were, if you will, directly commissioned as apostles that is those who who lived with the Lord Jesus those years.

41:35 So being sent on their way, they went to Phoenicia, Samaria, and they ended up at the church in Jerusalem. I'm summarizing verses three through five. Now verse five. But some of the sect of the pharisees who believed rose up. See, some of the sect of the pharisees who believed.

41:52 They were saved people saying it is necessary to circumcise them and command them to keep the law of Moses. Now look at how they handle this. Now the apostles and elders came together to consider the matter. So what's... What is that for us?

42:09 That's a model for us. We've got a question. We come together. No one has secondary agenda agenda. We're gonna deal with the problem.

42:18 And when they had been... When there had been much dispute, Peter rose and said to them, now what does that mean? That means that they had ample discussion. Some of it was not an agreement, clearly not. And yet there were times in which people would listen to each other's opinion.

42:36 Peter rose up, Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago, God chose among us that by the mouth of... By my mouth, the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. What is he referring to? Cornelius. He was in Joppa vision, blanket, food, don't call unclean what I've made clean, twice over.

42:59 Then go follow the guys that's at your door. Go over to Cornelius's house. He preaches the gospel, he tells them about Jesus Christ, they get saved and the evidence of that salvation is their immediate speaking in foreign languages. And Peter connects the dots and he says, wow, this is exactly what happened to the Jewish believers back in the upper room and it's happening here in Caesarea Philippi or Caesarea by the sea, Caesarea Maritime. Therefore, the spirit of God must be leading here.

43:32 The spirit of God must be showing us where he's going. You see that? He he's reciting that incident and he says, so God knows the heart. You see what Peter learned? In acknowledging them by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us.

43:47 He's referencing the whole thing. And made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. You see what he says? The Lord didn't... He did not hold salvation back from them.

43:58 He gave them the same spirit that we have without any of this keeping of the law or being circumcised. Now therefore, why do you test God putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples whether which what neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved in the same manner as they. Do you hear that? He went back to the historical record of the spirit of God and what he did and he cited it in a very logical sequence so that conclusion can be drawn from that sequence of events and of course, the word of God.

44:43 Now, everyone else, look in verse 12, they were silent and they listened to Paul. See, so we have an orderliness about dealing with disagreement. Paul and Barnabas declaring how many miracles and they talked about the work of God that was being done in the Gentiles as another evidence that the spirit of God was taking the gospel out to the Gentiles not necessarily with circumcision either. And after they had become silent James, so see see how we're very orderly, we're very thoughtful, we're we're we're doing this in in a sort of a rational way, not with our emotions bleeding out everywhere. You don't read the word dispute in this discussion.

45:25 You don't read the word anger. And so they became silent. James said, men and brethren, Simon has declared how God first visited the Gentiles to take a people for his name and and then he cites the old testament which I might add was a key citing. And then he says, you know, why don't we have them? And he gives a proposal.

45:48 Let's counsel them that they don't get polluted by idols, they abstain from sexual immorality, they don't do this eating with the blood thing, and let's encourage them that way. Now, what he did was he was taking the heart attitude of the believing pharisees that felt like we should follow the law and he said, really what we mean by that is we don't want them to be mixed with the world. So let's just talk about not being mixed with the world. You see, he continued the idea of the principle, although it was not with the same specifics the Pharisees, the believing Pharisees wanted to have. Now, that became satisfactory.

46:33 He was able to say something that accomplished the same thing but without all the tentacles of legalism. Now that was palatable to the believing Pharisees. They would... Who would disagree with that? And they signed off on the letter, they took it, and they read it to the church at Antioch.

46:50 Now what are we learning from this? But what are we... What we're learning is that it's possible for a group of Christians who disagree who can actually come together in a consensus manner. Now, what do I mean by consensus? You you see, there is a element of decision making in which I agree with brothers John with all my heart and all my emotions and I'm fully supportive of you.

47:19 But then there's other agreement which says, well, I don't exactly see it like that but I can live with it. I can do it that way. Alright? You see the difference? That second is this idea of consensus decision making.

47:35 And generally speaking, when you have a large variety of differing gift, a large variety of ministries and perspectives, sometimes having the full vested emotional energy and support of an idea is not possible. You want it definitely on the important issues, doctrinal issues. But sometimes we're talking about how to manage secondary issues and and and the idea there is that you can still move forward as a group of elders by working through a consensus. Obviously, when you talk about consensus, there are some people who are more passionate about the issue than you. Give give them way.

48:19 Sometimes when you talk about consensus, somebody knows more about an issue than you. Defer. That's fine. If you feel strongly that that's not the thing, then convey it. But in conveying it, think about an alternative solution.

48:38 Don't just say I dig my heels in and I disagree and that's that. But maybe the... Because the problem still exists. Maybe going to the area... To the next level of thinking about an alternative solution like they did in the book of acts.

48:55 This is what allows elders to function and the body to move forward without stalemating and becoming sort of getting the reputation that the elders never do anything. That's not true. Now, we just don't wanna do things to do things. We wanna discern and do the do the Lord's will. But within the oversight, sometimes we'll have developed the bull elder.

49:23 The elder that says, well, this is the way it is and that's that. If you don't do it my way, I'm gonna I'm gonna step down or I'm gonna... And, you know, kind of a threat. That is not the spirit of the... Of unity and the oversight.

49:36 We want to be able to work together as best as possible. Now sometimes a a brother is that strong and adamant and maybe that's their norm and they wanna step down, sometimes they probably should step down. Alright? I don't think there's any of that in this... In your meeting, but I mean, I've been in meetings like that.

49:55 And so so we we we wanna give way for that. But generally speaking, you have a problem, you pray, you ask the Lord. As the Lord leads, he may give a brother a proposal. You discuss the proposal, you address concerns, you might have to alter the proposal, Then you decide, okay, I think we can live with it. We can live with it and then you execute.

50:22 And if you can't live with it, there isn't a consensus, then you wait. And there's nothing wrong with waiting To simply say, brothers and sisters in the body, we don't have a consensus and we've learned that when we don't have a consensus, we should wait on the spirit of God to make it clear to us. That's very godly. Very godly. Lastly, I would say the most important thing if as elders as they make decisions is let's do what would glorify the Lord Jesus the most.

51:07 They are cut and dried. Those you do. Then there are... Sometimes there's not commands about what to do or not to do. There are simply principles.

51:17 This is how God is. He's merciful. So let's go ahead and provide this... These gifts for these families. That's what we did.

51:25 Family contacted us, they had... Mother lost her job, they had no Christmas gift giving, they were poor and they looked at us as a church that could do something. And so we prayed and we asked the Lord and we gave them gifts. It was because God is generous even to the kind and unthankful, even to the evil and unthankful. So we did.

51:51 Alright. Then there's God's character. Alright. This is how God is in general. Right?

51:59 Oh, God is... I used merciful. I I... I'm... One of the principles I meant to say was not causing a stumbling block.

52:09 That this is what we don't wanna cause someone else to stumble in their walk. Merciful would be the example of God's character. Forgive me. I got those backwards. And then lastly is this idea of the glory of God.

52:24 If we're gonna let's on worship. That's the best principle. And as elders begin to weigh decisions, if you use that grid, direct commands, the principles of God, the character of God, the glory of God, you generally are able to narrow down your choices quite quickly and easily. And I think it's a it's a very invaluable grid if you will to make decisions in the oversight. Okay.

52:53 I've I've gone through some... A lot of specifics. I answered a question. I talked about plurality. I talked about the need of of respecting and appreciating each other in the plurality and then of course, I talked about how to work through when pull...

53:11 When all the parts of the oversight have disagreement and how to how to solve that. So I wanted to give you some practical things that I pray will help the assembly there as you pray together. Alright. I'll be quiet and take any questions if you want. I gotta turn on a lamp here.

53:32 It's getting dark. There we go. I'm sorry. I can't hear you, Denzel. Says you're muted.

54:13 I said, you've ported in with a fire hose again. So we're... So I I think we're all trying to digest that. I I appreciate your point about the the plurality, and I I would go to Acts 20 in in two two respects. One, where he called the Ephesian elders to him, and then it it would appear to me...

54:41 You could disagree with me, but it would appear to me that he was speaking to that group, shepherd the flock. Yeah. It was the it was the goal or the the responsibility, if you will, for that body to do that work, not for the individuals to do... Individually do the work, you know, sort of like he he called Peter when he restored Peter, but but, really, it was that group. Yep.

55:10 And then, also, the... His first admonition is take care to yourselves. Yeah. And I I appreciate that point about... That you made about the elders having to shepherd one another Yeah.

55:24 For the purpose... For for that specific purpose.

55:27 Yeah. Amen. Amen. Very good. Thank you.

55:31 You said it better and shorter than what I did.

55:35 That that that is usually not my skill set.

55:46 Alright. Alright.

55:55 Anyone else that's connected have any other questions? Alright. Sounds like we're clear, Steve.

56:03 Alright. Would you like me to close in prayer?

56:06 That'd be great.

56:07 Okay. Our gracious father, we're just we're just looking at some of these things from the word of God, and we wanna apply them, Lord. We don't we don't wanna find reasons not to obey you. We wanna find reasons to obey you. And to us, father, the most important reason is we just love the Lord Jesus.

56:29 We just love him so. He's he's... Oh, father, I I can't ever imagine a moment. I don't I don't know of any moments when he has not been the best shepherd a person could ever have. And he is that shepherd to the assembly here and he's a and he's a shepherd to assemblies across the world.

56:48 My father, I just wanna ask you to take the greatness of his shepherding and lavish it upon the brothers and sisters at Westlake and Dunning Park. And I pray father that you would overwhelm them with peace and the sense of direction and the sense of the leading of the spirit. I pray that you would give every person in the assembly the heart to discern your hand. The spirit of God who in some ways is is described as a wind and it takes us extra effort to pay attention to his movements. I pray father that you would give a quick a quick discerning eye And then, of course, the most important thing, a heart to obey what is discerned.

57:35 Father, that's really the problem. Sometimes it's not us figuring out what you're doing, it's not wanting to do what you're doing. And we just ask you give us a heart to simply obey. Oh father, there is a need in North America and that's the bride to mature and grow into the to the dimension, the maturity of the head and we want that. We pray that.

58:00 We beg for you. We beg of that from you. I pray that for my assembly, Dunning Park, for Westlake, we just ask you to do these great things they are of you. Father, I know you wouldn't disagree with them. So when I pray in Jesus' name, I have confidence that you have heard us this evening.

58:19 In Jesus' name, amen.